Discussion Forums - DVD Bazaar

Okay, since there is so much controversy, I've removed the thread (especially since it's been so corrupted with commentary rather than posts related to its actual purpose). I think it is absolutely silly to allow people to individually post WL multiples & not allow one consolidated list like on PBS. It would reduce the clutter and streamline for everyone. It's been requested by members. Either you allow it or you don't. I don't see how it is any different to have 20 posts or just one with 20 offers.

To the powers that be...it's time to make a solid policy one way or the other. I say, if you allow it on one site, you should allow it on all three. I personally really appreciate being able to post a multiples list, and I know many others do, too. I also really appreciate being able to order multiples at once. It's a valuable service, especially with the down economy and so many of us struggling financially.

Media mail at $2.38 is much cheaper when mailing 3-4 movies rather than spending $1.90 on each one plus shipping supplies. It really does help the bottom line, especially if you mail several movies each week. We are the people who are actively using this site and encouraging others to join.

I personally love the site and make it a daily ritual to check what's going on in the bazaar. I've never joined netflix or other online rental service, because I'm able to find so many good movies here to watch. I love ordering several movies at a time. I do post back through FIFO and use them to play the games in the games forums.

I say consolidate into one thread for WL multiples.

ETA: I just wanted to add an "AMEN" to Gloria's post below:

"Add into the mix that every single time I've posted and mailed a WL'd dvd there has been a "problem" such as the receiver not marking the dvd as rec'd. "

I have had so many problems with posting wish listed movies directly through FIFO (and books, too, on PBS). In fact, I have a book that I mailed first class over 2 weeks ago still sitting in my inbox on PBS. It will probably time out just like many others have in the past. Yes, I know you can use the shipping service through the site with delivery confirmation, but what if you are like me without a working printer, or someone who doesn't have a credit card? AND, I've noticed that the estimated shipping on the printable packaging is often incorrect. I can pretty much say that every time I have mailed with the printable packaging that the shipping printed on there was different than what the actual shipping was when weighed at the post office on at least one package. AND, I've had instances where I have had to pay the difference in shipping when I rec'd a book or dvd. 

I am removing the remainder from this thread--not that I feel I have violated any rules. I assumed in all good faith that since the thread was created and I read the rules before posting that all was well. Not only that, I had several WL'd ones that would have cost quite a bit to mail had not I been able to post them here!  That is my main issue--I'd rather mail several than individual dvds. Add into the mix that every single time I've posted and mailed a WL'd dvd there has been a "problem" such as the receiver not marking the dvd as rec'd.   

Sending you a PM Gloria

have removed ,,i do not think i am in any violation or the rules,but if i offend 1 then i offend all,,thanks  Joe

Postable Wish Listed DVDs should be entered into the general system with no strings attached. This is a rule. ****

I believe your plan violates the rules of SwapaDVD. Just because it's done on PBS doesn't automatically mean it's okay here. It's okay to offer deals on postable movies, it's okay to offer unpostables, but it's *not* okay to offer deals on bundles of all WL postable dvds, or to use a postable WL dvd as a "string" or bait for non WL dvd orders.

Actually, TPTB have given permission for senders to occassionally offer wishlisted items in bundles to save on shipping.  It should not become a habit is my understanding.  Guides have stated it was ok in the other forums (Questions about SwapADVD).  I guess it's still up in the air about how to do it here.  It's causing quite a debate.

EDA:  http://www.swapadvd.com/forum/topic.php?t=13899&l=25&ls=0#p122132

I have not seen anything from the site Mgmt of SwapaDVD that says definitively it's okay or not okay. According to the published rules, it's not okay. According to one comment I've seen, it will probably be ignored if done only occasionally. Organizing a specific thread to list rule breaking deals is not "occasional use" in my opinion. 

Guess we will see if TPTB find it in violation and have it removed.  As a tour guide, do you not have access to TPTB to get clarification?

I was told directly by the swapadvd team that it was ok if done on occasion but should not be done for all dvds posted to swapadvd.

OK - so now how does one determine if it's "occasional" or more than occasional?  IMO, posting a topic specifically for this purpose makes it more than occasional. JMO

I sent in another note to TPTB and will report back. 

It is very understandable that we would want to save money on shipping.. And I really hate to say, but this type of trading IS breaking the rules.  FYFO is the way the site was set up, and is the intended way to list movies, for the most part.  But there has been leniency on this, hoping that if people are allowed to trade in bundles occasionally, they wouldn't make it their normal practice.  As it gets more and more common, I think it is (regretfully) likely that we will see some clamping down. 

Set aside the rules and the interpretation of it for just a moment. Almost half of the top 25 traders are very active on the forums. Because of deals offered and accepted, I would say the forums promotes trading. Being able to list multiple WL items for trade helps people who are already mailing out TONS of dvds, AND it promotes use of the site. I am sure many people have all of the non-WL dvds they want. It is worth it to check the Bazaar for occasional 2 for 1s on movies you don't need, but seem interesting, but it feels much more rewarding when you can snag several choise WL movies. I know I have ordered several more than I wanted because I knew that I could put them back into the system at any time I wanted.

My opinion is that SAD should allow the use of ordering multiple WL DVDs. Rather than limit or penalize the most active users, why not promote the fact that this occurs in the forums and encourage more people to use the forums? This site keeps statistics on how many movies are ordered, posted, and users that log on. I am not sure if it only counts users once or each time the log on. If it is only once, then over 1,000 log on daily. Only about 100 use the forums. Talk more about the benefits of the forums in the newsletter, and let those with multiple WL items save a few dollars, and those of us that check the forums regularly pick up a few extra sweet deals. IMHO.

So, basically what you are saying is that SaD should change the rules to benefit 10% of the members.

Clearly, 90% of the members (it would seem) don't want to spend time chasing down movies or deals in the forums, they just want to have their tower and their WL and keep it simple.

I sent in feedback before about WL bundling and I'm including the exact reply below.

You are exactly right. Bundling is a "strings attached" deal, and we don't permit it. However, we agree completely with your statements, "If someone is strapped for cash, and offers up a bundle once in a while, fine. It gets WL items that might not be posted otherwise into the system. But when it's standard practice, I think it's against the rules."

I agree with Denise, organizing a specific thread is not "occasional use."  Unless TPTB institute some sort of regulation, which I have suggested in the past, this thread only promotes trading that is against Bazaar rules.  Since I sent in feedback yesterday AM and have yet to hear back, I can only assume the Team is trying to decide how to implement "once in a while" versus standard practice.   

Personally, I think this thread would work with some different rules.  (Paperbackswap and SwapaDVD are NOT the same and postage rates are vastly different when you're talking about mailing out HBs and DVDs.  You have to consider cost per credit versus cost per postage.)   Put a limit on the number of discs allowed per bundle, a limit on the number of bundles allowed offered per 3 months (or whatever, but every month offerings aren't "once in a while.")

  Or just do away with it completely...

I agree that further rules should be implemented about WL bundling.  I personally see nothing wrong with it.  I've only done it once since I've been a member, but I have taken advantage of others' offers to get items that are on my WL.  I don't mind the "strings attached" assumption because I know I can get my credits back by posting them in the system.  Which is exactly what I do for the WL items in the bundle that I don't won't.  So not only am I getting what I want by taking a WL bundle, the other movies get put in the system for the #1 person on the list. (thus I am assuming that everyone gets what they want).

If we aren't careful, people are going to start making WL bundles seem unpostable just to be able to get around this rule.  I believe the management team would much rather see honesty in posting offers than an attempt to get around the system.

I know that shipping costs vary greatly between books and DVDs.  But, assume that one DVD usually costs roughly $1.80 to send.  If you send 3 DVDs separately then you are spending $5.40 to ship them.  But, it you send them in one package...you only spend approximately $3 to mail them.  If you're sending multiple bundles out a month, the savings can be significant.  Especially for someone who already sends out a lot of shipments.  I don't think that the management team wants us to go broke by always mailing them individually.

I hate that this is becoming such a debate because I feel it will only hurt everyone in the end.  Honestly, I could have sold the WL movies I bundled and mailed for more on Ebay or Half.com than the cost of the credit I received.  I feel if such restrictions are put on WL movies, people will turn elsewhere to "move" these movies, and you won't see them posted at all here.  Then everyone loses.

That's my opinion.

Kellie

EDA:  If your aren't benefiting the people who mail out large orders every month, then 100% of the members lose out.

Also added:  Plus, the way the WL is by rank and not by first come first served...it makes it hard for everyone to get the highly wishlisted items.  I see people complaining all the time because they get bumped (me included).  I think that by adding some rules, WL bundling would benefit everyone.

Here's my real life shipping example.  I just printed postage for 3 movies together.  The cost for all 3 to ship together was $2.57.  If I had shipped them separately, the price was going to be $1.90 each (a total of $5.70).  By shipping them together, I saved $3.13.  I would much rather continue to save money by shipping multiples (no matter if they are wishlisted or not).  I can ship more movies a month by bundling and saving.  Isn't this the point of the site??  To swap movies??

I agree with those who don't see the problem with this. I'll admit I do bundles quite often ( Around once a month which is allowed)...why? It's because I simply do not have the funds to mail items by themselves all of the time. I applaud those who have awesome jobs and unlimited funds to spend on postage but understand that there are many of us here that do not. Some may have issues with money due to the economy but I know there are members who have health issues (myself included) and are on disability or unemployment. We're not out to "cheat" anyone on the site by going around the FIFO system. We just simply want to be part of this great site and to you a couple of bucks here and there isn't much but to me a couple of bucks helps me pay my electricity bill this month. Most people on here joined in order to make friends who have similar interests in films and to SAVE MONEY. Kellie is right when she said we could easily get rid of WL items by selling them on another site. I myself have done that in the past just to avoid the drama caused by listing a bunch of WL items in the bazaar. Now would you rather get a CHANCE at obtaining something or see less items posted in the forums because people are getting sick of the drama? I get bummed out too when I see something listed in the bazaar that I would like but life goes on and eventually I'll get my chance at obtaining the item.

I know that shipping costs vary greatly between books and DVDs.

I just don't see this.  Most books I mail out are mass market paperbacks, and most books I get in multiple deals at PBS are mass market paperbacks. Those don't cost much more, if any more, to mail than DVDs.  Also, when you consider in the value of a wish list mass market paperback against the value of a wish list DVD, the DVD sender is almost always sending out the "better deal" So, I just don't get the postage cost argument.  Also, in hundreds of trades at PBS, as a sender and receiver, I think I could count on my fingers the number of hardcover books I've received or sent. AND, I've never gotten a hardcover book as part of a WL bundle.

I feel if such restrictions are put on WL movies, people will turn elsewhere to "move" these movies, and you won't see them posted at all here.  Then everyone loses.

I couldn't agree more.  I don't think these threads are stopping books from being posted FIFO, but I do think they are ENCOURAGING members to list their WL DVDs here rather than elsewhere.

My whole argument with the book's shipping cost is based on the fact that I only have hardback books on my shelf.  I rarely purchased paperback books.  So when I offer a deal at the paperbackswap, it is for hardcover books.  Therefore, my shipping cost is much higher.  I can see your point about most mailing out paperback books, but even those can get expensive.  I managed to get 3 of the 4 Twilight books from there.  They are all paperback, but it cost quite a bit to ship them because they are so thick.  So it really just depends on what you are shipping there.

I just wanted to clarify what I meant :)

I know that shipping costs vary greatly between books and DVDs.

I just don't see this.  Most books I mail out are mass market paperbacks.

The difference is that I don't mail MMPBs in bundles.   I post them directly to FIFO.  I only bundle WLed HBs and heavy trades and at $4 a book, bundling makes sense.   Personally,  I don't think MMPBs should be allowed in WL bundles, but since WLed MMPBs tend to cycle quickly from heavily WLed to easily available, it isn't quite the same. 

eta - and about 90% of what I post at PBS is WLed so I've got a pretty healthy postage tab over there...

Ok, I admit I skimmed a little, but I believe one basic thing has been overlooked here.  The thread at PBS was directly and specifically authorized by TPTB.  Was this thread assumed to be OK (that's what i'm getting) or specifically authorized?  If not authorized, it's not OK.

I'll admit I do bundles quite often...why?

Why is irrelevent since it's not "occasional" and TPTB have said that only occasional bundling is acceptable.

Unless you are only sending out single disc movies, the saving postage angle doesn't really fly the way it does at PBS.  I just mailed out a DVD this morning for $1.90.  There are very few books that mail for that and, unless and audiobook (which would almost never go for $1.90) it's only 1 credit.  Needing to bundle multi-disc sets is really just greed, frankly, I hope TPTB put an end to it.  We will, of course, have to wait and see.

For those of us who've only mailed less than 50 DVDs in a 2-3 year period, the shipping costs probably don't matter to you.  But there are people who ship out 50 DVDs a month...and the shipping costs do matter to them.  No matter if there is a difference between books and DVDs.  We have to be realistic about this.  Costs do matter whether you'd like to believe it or not.

I would rather NOT post WL'd ones because of the problems, which many people talk about on other forums so that subject has been covered elsewhere.  Many of the folks that regularly use the forums and bazaar have said they do not post WL'd directly but post them to buddies WL. I guess if it isn't going on in public, then it's okay.  Part of the fun of bartering is finding deals, come on now. How many people are going to wait around through 200 wishers for a dvd they can search for at yard sales, etc. and buy for less than the cost of a credit?  I know when Star Trek came out, I wanted it but never did put my name on that wishlist, and was able to trade for a copy long ago--while there are still how many on that wishlist?  And i also was able to buy a like-new copy for $3 recently. Avatar is on sale for less than a credit online, and how long is that wishlist?  I think if people really wanted a movie they would look for it. I agree with others on this topic that postage is a huge issue for those on limited incomes.